• If you're a past member of the board, but can't recall your password any more, you don't need to set up a new account (unless you wish to). As long as you recall your old login name, you can log in with that user name then select 'forgot password' and the board will email you at your registration email, to let you reset your password.

Can the cavalier breed be saved?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bet

Well-known member
This is the Head-Lines on the Front Page of a Dog Magazine Published this Week.

The Two Health Subjects in Cavaliers mentioned are SM and MVD,included also was EFS.

Mention was made in the Article about the EBVs,now we know that because of the non-co-operation of a number of Cavalier Breeders in giving the Health Data to the Researchers for the EBVs Scheme, the Cavalier Breed has slipped from the Fore-Most Position in this and has been over-taken by the Labrador Breed, where the Information needed has been more forh-coming.

It was said in the Article ,this comment made by Dr Tom Lewis ,one of the Researchers ,that the Lack of Data is delaying the Production of the Values for SM in Cavaliers.

Should some Cavalier Breeders not be Hanging their Heads in Shame because of this Remark being made. !

The Figure of around a Third of the Cavalier Population has been thought by Researchers to be suffering from SM in varying degrees ,I am sure the Cavalier Buying Public will have noted this Remark from the Article.

Also mentioned in the Article was this Comment by Simon Swift ,European Recognized Specialist in Veterinary Cardiology and Advisor to the UK CKCS CLUB, that All Cavalier Breeders should follow the CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations to Reduce the Incidence of MVD in Cavaliers .

THAT BOTH PARENTS ARE OVER 2.5 YEARS OF AGE ,AND HAVE CLEAR HEART CERTIFICATES BEFORE BEING BRED FROM.

THE PARENTS OF BOTH THE CAVALIER BROOD BITCH AND STUD ,SHOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED CLEAR OF A HEART MURMUR AT 5 YEARS OF AGE.

What have we learnt from a Post from Margaret ,that a CKCS CLUB Committee Member,is using Under-Age Cavaliers in the Breeding Program.

Should the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE ,as a first Priority ,start putting their Own House in Order ,to at Least try and SAVE THE CAVALIER BREED by making Committee Members set an Example by following the CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations?

I would Have Thought So.

Maybe now some Cavalier Breeders will have to Realize ,that no Amount of Spinning will cover up the Fact ,that when a Questione is asked by a DOG MAGAZINE about the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed ,and can the Breed be Saved, the Cavaliers are in Serious Trouble.

Bet
 
This is the Head-Lines on the Front Page of a Dog Magazine Published this Week.

The Two Health Subjects in Cavaliers mentioned are SM and MVD,included also was EFS.

Mention was made in the Article about the EBVs,now we know that because of the non-co-operation of a number of Cavalier Breeders in giving the Health Data to the Researchers for the EBVs Scheme, the Cavalier Breed has slipped from the Fore-Most Position in this and has been over-taken by the Labrador Breed, where the Information needed has been more forh-coming.

It was said in the Article ,this comment made by Dr Tom Lewis ,one of the Researchers ,that the Lack of Data is delaying the Production of the Values for SM in Cavaliers.

Should some Cavalier Breeders not be Hanging their Heads in Shame because of this Remark being made. !

The Figure of around a Third of the Cavalier Population has been thought by Researchers to be suffering from SM in varying degrees ,I am sure the Cavalier Buying Public will have noted this Remark from the Article.

Also mentioned in the Article was this Comment by Simon Swift ,European Recognized Specialist in Veterinary Cardiology and Advisor to the UK CKCS CLUB, that All Cavalier Breeders should follow the CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations to Reduce the Incidence of MVD in Cavaliers .

THAT BOTH PARENTS ARE OVER 2.5 YEARS OF AGE ,AND HAVE CLEAR HEART CERTIFICATES BEFORE BEING BRED FROM.

THE PARENTS OF BOTH THE CAVALIER BROOD BITCH AND STUD ,SHOULD ALSO HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED CLEAR OF A HEART MURMUR AT 5 YEARS OF AGE.

What have we learnt from a Post from Margaret ,that a CKCS CLUB Committee Member,is using Under-Age Cavaliers in the Breeding Program.

Should the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE ,as a first Priority ,start putting their Own House in Order ,to at Least try and SAVE THE CAVALIER BREED by making Committee Members set an Example by following the CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations?

I would Have Thought So.

Maybe now some Cavalier Breeders will have to Realize ,that no Amount of Spinning will cover up the Fact ,that when a Questione is asked by a DOG MAGAZINE about the Health Problems in our Cavalier Breed ,and can the Breed be Saved, the Cavaliers are in Serious Trouble.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Just read about Program on the Dutch TV last night,the Title of the Program was ,

The End of the Pedigree Dog .

The CAVALIER and the ENGLISH BULLDOG were pictured as the most Ill under Pedigree Dogs .

There is now a Trial being started in Holland against the The Dutch Kennel Club to ask the Judge to Forbid the Breeding of Cavaliers in Holland .

The Orginization involved in this have a Proven Article which says it is Impossible to have a Cavalier who is Free from a Disease ,and for that Reason ,it is against the Dutch Animal Welfare Law to Breed with such a Dog

Since this was on the Dutch TV last night , will the Vociferious Cavalier Breeders here in Britain now accept that our Cavalier Breed is in a Mess with the Health Problems that they now have and will be Lucky to Survive unless the Breeding Guideline Recommendations are being followed to try and give Cavaliers the chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.

Or are those Cavalier Breeders whose Egos seem to be their only Ambition to Win in the Show Ring,going to be Responsible for the Cavalier Breed becoming Extinct?

Bet
 
CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Just read about Program on the Dutch TV last night,the Title of the Program was ,

The End of the Pedigree Dog .

The CAVALIER and the ENGLISH BULLDOG were pictured as the most Ill under Pedigree Dogs .

There is now a Trial being started in Holland against the The Dutch Kennel Club to ask the Judge to Forbid the Breeding of Cavaliers in Holland .

The Orginization involved in this have a Proven Article which says it is Impossible to have a Cavalier who is Free from a Disease ,and for that Reason ,it is against the Dutch Animal Welfare Law to Breed with such a Dog


Bet

Bet, This is an Animal Rights Organisation, no? Esther
 
Bet, This is an Animal Rights Organisation, no? Esther

What difference does that make? If the Dutch court decides to ban the breed, don't blame the people who filed the lawsuit. Blame the breeders for allowing these conditions to reach the point that a healthy cavalier cannot be produced. If all of the breeders would follow the MVD breeding protocol -- which has been around for 12 to 13 years thus far -- the researchers who devised it tell us that early-onset MVD would be eliminated in the breed in as few as three generations.

The vast majority of breeders have allowed this disease to fester and worsen.
 
What difference does that make? If the Dutch court decides to ban the breed, don't blame the people who filed the lawsuit. Blame the breeders for allowing these conditions to reach the point that a healthy cavalier cannot be produced. If all of the breeders would follow the MVD breeding protocol -- which has been around for 12 to 13 years thus far -- the researchers who devised it tell us that early-onset MVD would be eliminated in the breed in as few as three generations.

The vast majority of breeders have allowed this disease to fester and worsen.
You've got it in one Rod. Said exactly what is on my mind. If breeders love this beautiful wonderful breed so much why do they continue to breed from them knowing how ill they are. :bang: :bang: What is it going to take for people to realise what is going on?? What is it going to take for people to realise this breed is dying because of human influence? We need a miracle.
 
Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

Bet, what dog magazine are you talking about?

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Rod,

The Magazine is called DOGS TODAY,and I sure do agree with you that a good number of Cavalier Breeders have brought this on them-selves about what is being said about our Cherished Cavaliers.

If only they had Listened to the Researchers when they were being warned about MVD and SM a few years ago , but NO ,those Vociferious Cavalier Breeders were too busy trying to get us Cavalier Owners kept Quiet about the Health Problems that were Afflicting our Cavalier Breed.

Even to getting Margaret removed from the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE,because she was warning about the Cavalier Health Problems.

Now as the Saying goes ,the Chickens are Coming Home To Roost.

Because of those Cavalier Breeders' Actions, will the Cavalier Breed have a Future.

What a Slap in the Face it is for those Cavalier Breeders who have let the Breed get into this State when the Cavalier's Health Troubles are mentioned on the Dutch TV ,and here in Britain , the Question is being asked by a DOG MAGAZINE , can the Cavalier Breed be Saved.

Surely those certain Few Cavalier Breeders must be Ashamed of Them-Selves for allowing the Decimation of our Cavalier Breed to Happen.

Bet
 
Ive been a reader of Dogs |Today for a couple of years now and I recall the Magazine doing a similer front cover story not long after the PDE program was shown about the Cavalier and whether it could be saved.

Its over a year later and they are having to do the same/similer article........what does that say about progress!!

I dont honestly think there is much hope for this beautiful, amazing breed of dog.

I often say that this breed is the perfect loyal companion and family dog- perfect in all but one way.... its health and the heart break it brings.
I think the Dutch have the right idea but It saddens me very much to say it!
 
Hi Karen, Bet.....is it the January edition ?


Yes Tania,

It was in the Shops last Thursday ,and is the January 2011 Edition.

I really can't understand the Mind Set of some Cavalier Folk,there is one Cavalier Person saying that it is the Bad Publicity that is being given to the Cavaliers that is going to finish off the Breed.!!!!!

Bet
 
I think...........

If countries start outlawing the breeding of Cavaliers then how many back-alley breeders will set up shop and sell "counterfeit" Cavaliers! It would be the worst thing for the breed! Just imagine how many more problems the breed will get.
 
I think...........

If countries start outlawing the breeding of Cavaliers then how many back-alley breeders will set up shop and sell "counterfeit" Cavaliers! It would be the worst thing for the breed! Just imagine how many more problems the breed will get.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Maybe the answer is for the Lovers of Cavaliers to Stop buying Cavaliers , that could Focus the Minds of the Cavalier Breeders who are not Helping the Cavalier Breed by Breeding from Cavaliers who are not Healthy.

For this to have appeared though on a Dutch TV Program ,shows what the Health Problems the Cavaliers have , are doing to our Cavalier Breed.

Bet
 
If buyers boycott cavaliers, then breeders will soon go out of business.(y)

But.................. I love my cavaliers though.
 
I don't think the answer is for Cavalier lovers to stop buying Cavaliers. It's like people who think the answer to shelter overpopulation is to stop breeding dogs altogether. People will always want a Pedigree dog and I know I will always want a Cavalier.

I am not saying there is not a problem with both issues, but the best way is to support those breeders who are scanning and following MVD protocols and other health tests. I can't imagine there are no breeders who are not doing this. I don't know what has been done in the past but it's time to start with the future. I simply can not give up hope for this breed. I know for a fact there are breeders having their dogs scanned and graded. I was at a dog show and there was a regional club group there and I overheard them talking about going together to scan. They were not saying this for show because I had to ask them what they were talking about. If one person sets an example, then others follow.

I don't think breeders should blame others and I don't think pet owners should blame all breeders. I do think something should be done, but banning a whole breed is not the solution. We all need to stop blaming altogether because what does that do? You want people to stop hoping for things like Rupert's Fund to help the future? This is what gives owners, like me, hope. We need to recognize there is a problem, accept it, do something about it, and go forward. Please do not give up hope.
 
I'm sorry I just get upset. It is not just the Cavaliers that hurt, it's the pet owners who fall in love with someone and see them go through pain. I can not tell you how many times I have cried. If a breeder does not care about health tests or what the Cavalier feels and the pain it can have, then they should think of the person whose life is full of hurt from loving a dog that they wish they could save.
 
If the informed (us I hope) stop buying Cavaliers it will make no difference to the unscrupulous breeders and the people who breed without any knowledge of what they are doing.

Last year when out with Ben I was approached in Leven Scotland by a young couple with the tiniest Blenheim bitch that I have ever seen, they said that they were looking for an equally small stud dog so they could breed from their bitch, which they had been given by an aunt.
When I mentioned MVD and SM and the breeding protocols I was met with blank stares, they did not know what I was talking about. I felt so sorry for the dog, I could have punched them right there, they were only out to make money.



The people who go and buy a Cavalier for the first time without researching the breed will be enough to keep them going.
 
I don't really want cavaliers to stop being bred from.:eek: but on the other hand it doesn't help when buyers purchase pups from the unscrupulous. If people really did stop buying from them, then they would stop breeding.
 
You have to also remember that the breeder is only 50% responsible for the heartache. Buyers must do their research and be aware of conditions of dogs before making a purchase.

A buyer may go and buy a Cavalier on a whim, look for the cheapest price, and then suffer the consequences.

More educated buyers will hurt those breeders doing wrong and help the whole process.

So sad what this breed is plagued with :(
 
The only way I can see to get healthy Cavaliers is to make it illegal to breed from non satisfactorily tested dogs and bitches.

I no longer want to know when people ask me to advise them on finding a puppy because they don't take the sensible advice I give them. The last 3 or 4 that I tried to guide in the right direction resulted in me spending time and money finding them a responsibly bred pup at a reasonable price, when either they would not go out of Birmingham to see a litter or could find one in the paper for half the price.

The thing I object to most of all is when all breeders get blamed for the sick dogs these people buy and by some members here who tar all of us with the same brush.

For anyone who does not know, I stopped breeding in 1992, then tried to restart 18 months ago because I had a positive tested bitch capable of making a healthy contribution to the breed. No pups despite trying 2 different dogs, but I will try twice more with her. So far she has cost somewhere in the region of £2,000 for health testing, reprovet fees, stud fees and travel.

What does not help is being lumped together with PFs and BYBs and being accused of overpricing by those either too stupid or too ignorant to appreciate the difference. Bet and Rod, all breeders are not the same and almost all that I know do test, then have to compete against the irresponsible to find good homes for their pups.
 
I have very grave doubts about the future viability of the breed.
Allow me to be brutally honest and explain why..
The crisis within the cavalier breed has been precipitated unfortunately before an effective and workable solution to the problems has been found.Technology has enabled the diagnosis of conditions like SM but technology has not as yet reached the point where it enables a breeder to breed away from it with any degree of certainty.
Research is making tremendous strides in understanding the nature and origin of the condition.Certainly Mri scanning is becoming increasingly differential and gives more helpful information to a breeder about the true status of their breeding stock.
So lets take a look at the situation:
The Foetal tissue research project shows 100% of whelps affected by CM
Low cost scans are consistently showing roughly 50% of cavaliers affected with SM
While some kennels have excellent heart lines,we're told over and over again that 50% of cavaliers will have a heart murmur by age 5.
Almost every breeder you meet will tell you that they're a responsible health focused breeder.It's very simple to convince yourself that you are in fact one...even if you've mated a 12 month old dog to an 8 month old bitch on her first season...a baby for Godsake who should be in her basket with her chew toys,not raising a bloody litter!!!!
However there are increasing numbers of breeders who have invested a lot of resources,money,time and hard work in developing and testing their breeding stock,who don't breed from young animals and some who did this even before Pedigree dogs exposed hit the world.
Despite the progress,there are too few of those breeders who go that extra mile and are committed to continuing their hard work.
There are too few truly clear stud dogs out there over the age of 2.5 years entering the genepool.Breeders are still flocking in their droves to the young sires,either because they're the best that's on offer in terms of health or they offer the best chance of a win in the showring.
How many A to A matings are being carried out?
A to C even?
A to D????
A or C to unscanned?
Unscanned to unscanned?
Its all very well telling people to look for parents over the age of 2.5 who are clear of this disease,that illness and to look at the certs..
You'd be forgiven for thinking that pet buyers will be tripping over health certs from
all the responsible breeders out there...that rain forests are being cleared to produce the paper for all the certs that you're going to be given.
The reality is this:
Pet buyers still are not being given a real choice when it comes to buying a puppy from health tested parents. The pups from A to A matings are being bought by OTHER BREEDERS to incorporate into their own breeding programmes.Breeders are keeping their own bitches from such matings.Pet buyers will be very very lucky to get such a pup.
How can you save a breed when so many breeders don't feel they even need to scan? So many are still breeding blind...and when it comes to understanding the SM situation,too many are still lost in space..overwhelmed by the complexity of all the terminology and the medical jargon.
Others are just too lazy to try and claim they'll test when the researchers(or an alien in a UFO perhaps) presents them with all the answers.
There's just too much reluctance to change the custom and practice in breeding which has stood for decades.
Too much reluctance by the kennel Club to realise the urgency of the situation.
Too much delay in rolling out the KC/BVA schemes
Reluctance of breeders to submit their scans to the AHT...
Inability of the breeders to self regulate...
Lack of information for breeders who want older healthy stud dogs..
The list goes on and on.
As for tarring all breeders with the same brush,frankly there's a few breeders who could do with a second coat!
Sins
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top